Vetted in Vet Med: Episode 3: Diary of a Corporate Black Woman: Part 1

This conversation delves into the experiences of working in corporate veterinary medicine, highlighting both the positive and negative aspects. The speakers share personal stories of navigating workplace culture, facing discrimination, and dealing with mental health challenges. They emphasize the importance of accountability and the need for a supportive environment in the veterinary profession.

Takeaways

• Corporate veterinary medicine offers both pros and cons.
• Experiences in corporate settings can vary widely.
• Mental health issues, including PTSD, are prevalent in veterinary medicine.
• Discrimination and bias can significantly impact workplace culture.
• Accountability is crucial for maintaining a healthy work environment.
• Supportive colleagues can make a significant difference in experiences.
• Veterinary professionals should advocate for themselves and others.
• The importance of open conversations about workplace challenges.
• Corporate culture can affect job satisfaction and mental health.
• Every professional experience has its expiration date. 

Transcript

Vetted In Vet Med (00:35)
So today we are going to be talking about our experiences in working in corporate veterinary medicine. I know that again, everybody's experience in corporate is different. And you know, we just happen to share some similarities. There will be no names. No names.

Vetted in Vet Med (01:03)
Hahaha

Vetted In Vet Med (01:05)
mentioned. But again, it's about sharing the perspective and then also, you know, about being an advocate, you know, for yourself, for others, and things that you might want to consider when you are faced with the opportunity with being, you know, or working at a corporate clinic. So

I will, this is definitely gonna take, it's gonna be multiple parts.

Vetted in Vet Med (01:39)
Yeah,

I just feel like this conversation to me, even thinking about it, like just preparing myself mentally to have this conversation, I'm just compartmentalizing, this is a whole nother conversation. This is a whole nother conversation because the experiences within this umbrella of corporate medicine is just like vast. I'm just like, mind blown.

Vetted In Vet Med (01:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Vetted in Vet Med (02:09)
No, I mean, I just think there are definitely some pros and cons and to be completely transparent and of course if you know me, you've had this conversation with me most likely, my cons are gonna be a little bit more fresh because I am fresh up out of there.

Vetted In Vet Med (02:32)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (02:33)
and go on

about my business. But I mean, of course, there were definitely some pros about the whole thing. As I mentioned before, when I first started, it was in mid town Atlanta

at this particular hospital, it was owned by two veterinarians. At that time, it was still under the corporate umbrella, but they were doing it a little bit differently. And they gave me a chance when, you know, I wouldn't say nobody else, they gave me, they took a chance on somebody who had no experience. So I don't know if I can say that it was corporate so much as the people.

Vetted In Vet Med (03:12)
Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (03:12)
But

I appreciate that wholeheartedly because it got my foot in the door. It's been a very long time because that was in 2008. So 17 years of corporate medicine for the most part has been a journey. I learned a lot, a lot in those undergrad times.

Vetted In Vet Med (03:24)
video.

Vetted in Vet Med (03:37)
It was great preparation because I saw a lot of things before I got to where I was going. And then I could apply what I saw and put a name to it, put a mechanism to it, pathology to it. And it just, you know, made things a whole lot more.

visual for me. So I was able to apply, which I think is one of the most important things about being a veterinarian is being able to apply your situation. just, you know, having that experience and being able to kind of move through this corporation and all these different aspects like nursing, you know, nurse,

Vetted In Vet Med (04:08)
Yes.

Vetted in Vet Med (04:25)
They had student program. had the DVM externship. had, onboarding as a new doctor. Like I mentioned, they had the lead doctor position, and then I went to area chief of staff. I appreciate the movement, you know, and not being stagnant in one place. Even if that's not something that you want to do, it's always good to have options.

Vetted In Vet Med (04:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (04:52)
So I like that aspect of it. It's very much appreciated. I think that having this conversation with Dex, for all you guys who don't know, Dex is my husband. it's kind of always weird for me to say my husband. don't know. It's never been, it's always, I know. So I'm just gonna call him who he is to me, is Dex. Having this conversation is like,

you know, are you going to talk about this? Are you going to talk about this? But quite honestly, my experiences at mostly every hospital was exactly the same, which leads me to believe this was my, my con part of my issues with corporate medicine was deeply rooted. It was a very much internal problem that was way up.

Vetted In Vet Med (05:29)
Mmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (05:48)
Yeah, it was way up the ladder because there's no way that I got the same situation with the same result and the same approach with this. Just it was, it was, I mean, by the time I got back to Jackson and experienced this situation, similar situation, I had PTSD, didn't even realize it. And this is probably one of those moments where I'm like,

Vetted In Vet Med (05:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm-mm-mm.

Vetted in Vet Med (06:18)
this is where it turns into another conversation, which we can save for another day because for those you don't know, know, veterinary medicine is one of those, entities that have a very high suicide rate. So when I say PTSD, I'm not saying it lightly. I definitely talk to my therapist about it. Like, I experienced a whole lot of things. So,

You know, just being in corporate medicine, you know, I had my experiences.

met wonderful people, very knowledgeable. mean Fayetteville, Georgia was probably my most successful area of nurses. Like, hell, the CSC, I would trust them with a pet before. I trust, I don't know, some doctors that I've met, quite honestly.

Vetted In Vet Med (06:49)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (07:15)
the conversations that they would have with these clients. I'm like, okay, well go ahead, go off. Like, explain all the heartworm disease. I appreciate that. Do you want me talk to them about that? Yeah, because I do have 30 patients to see. I appreciate that. Yes, it's a long conversation. I mean, and it's definitely something that always happens because you're in the South and you don't get to get your heartworm disease, but.

Vetted In Vet Med (07:19)
Wait, wait.

Yeah.

Yes, and you need conversation. That's a long conversation.

mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (07:45)
I met some very, very good people and some of them had been, you know, lifelong. I'm still in contact with a lot of people that I've run into that I hadn't seen in 10 plus years, 12 plus years, you know? and I still talk to them. We just had, you know, had that conversation, but, I've learned a whole lot and, even going to the conferences that, they provided.

that was a very eye-opening experience too you know, rubbing shoulders with certain people, you know, and I'm just like, yeah, hey, you know, we in a certain camera, I'm like, okay, I like this, you know, and just being able to take in all the information and how to apply things to everyday life and how to apply it to my, positions that I was in, it was...

Vetted In Vet Med (08:30)
Hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (08:40)
I mean, it's life changing. It really is. And I wouldn't change anything despite how much of a con my cons are. I had some experiences in which there were very derogatory language used in the hospital and the way that it was always approached.

Vetted In Vet Med (08:41)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (09:04)
for me was that, these people have these conversations and I'm not somebody to sugarcoat anything. So I have never heard the N word so much until I got into a professional setting. I grew up in Mississippi. Went to school in Alabama. I go to Georgia, Fayetteville, Georgia.

Vetted In Vet Med (09:13)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Alright.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (09:32)
And that's when it's thrown around in this clinic. I'm like, what are we doing here? And then the moment at first, of course, the first time it was my initial shock because it was one of the nurses I had been working with. And so I had to get her together real quick. No, ma'am, I'm not somebody you think in no way, or form have I given you that type of comfort.

Vetted In Vet Med (09:42)
Yeah.

Where are

Vetted in Vet Med (10:01)
to ever feel

like you can use that word in front of me. Don't ever disrespect me like that. And so it comes up again, then we, you know, I'm dealing with my boss, my line manager at the time, who, not for nothing, at that particular moment,

Vetted In Vet Med (10:06)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (10:19)
stay with me because this is somebody completely different from where I am in Jackson. And she was also from our alma mater and skin folk. And she basically, I mean, after the third time, it wasn't the same person, it different people saying this. After the third time, I was told basically my situation was not.

Vetted In Vet Med (10:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (10:48)
as significant as something she had experienced in vet school. This lady called her da da da da da. So, but it's not that serious. Like, why are you so up in arms about it? And at that point I was managing my coworkers leaving. I'm left standing in this million dollar hospital trying to cope. I'm working four or five days a week and I need a break.

Vetted In Vet Med (11:10)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (11:17)
And so I can remember asking her for some time off. I'm the kind of person, I rarely go anywhere in a sense where like I'm taking off. I try to always incorporate it into like time that I already have designated for myself. And I mean, it's a terrible trait to have, just so y'all know. It's terrible.

Vetted In Vet Med (11:26)
Yeah

I

had to be intentional about changing that, but I was the same way.

Vetted in Vet Med (11:44)
Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's why we told y'all don't, don't work four or five days a week. It's crazy. It's like straight out the gate. That's, mean, if that's what you like to do, that's one thing. But if it's something you feel like is for you to engorge yourself in veterinary medicine, it's just really not the way. It's not to do it. So, I mean, I'm asking for this time off and she's like, no, like we

Vetted In Vet Med (11:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (12:12)
We can't do that. It's just you. And I said, okay. You know, after I've been, you know, gas lit and experienced this whole thing, because there's also, I forgot his title, but he basically made it seem like, well, were some things said about other kinds of people in there? Excuse me?

Vetted In Vet Med (12:13)
Mmm.

And none of that matters. None of that matters.

And I know times were different then. I think now that probably would have been better received or handled. But regardless of that, it doesn't matter if that was a different experience than what she may have experienced during her time at vet school.

Vetted in Vet Med (12:48)
Yeah.

Right.

Vetted In Vet Med (13:03)
It's a situation that is uncomfortable to you. And I'm like, I'm sure there is something written in like some handbook somewhere, you know, where that is inappropriate. And I feel like that should have definitely been handled better. You know, especially if you're bringing it up, cause that's uncomfortable to have to bring up to somebody.

Vetted in Vet Med (13:13)
It's definitely in the handbook, girl.

It is.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm just like, y'all can't be serious right now. I'm like in this professional setting. You're gaslighting me. I mean, it's expected out in the street. Like I don't, I can't tell you what to do out in the street. That ain't nothing like, I'm not your keeper. But while we're in this hospital, like you mentioned, there are things in this handbook, there are things that, some guidelines that we need to abide by. And if I bring it to your attention,

Vetted In Vet Med (13:38)
in a professional setting.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (14:01)
and then you gas light me to make me feel like not only is my experience not as...

Vetted In Vet Med (14:10)
severe

Vetted in Vet Med (14:10)
integrating

as yours or you know so much more heartbreaking you also made me feel like I didn't stick up for somebody else when that's not what we even talking about because not for nothing I go to bat for all kinds of people don't don't do that do not do that but that's not what we're talking about if somebody of

Vetted In Vet Med (14:26)
Where are you?

Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (14:38)
homosexual, transgender, because in, let's be honest, like in Atlanta, you got all kinds of people in there. All kinds of people are my friend. but if all of this is a real issue, then I'm sorry that these people, if they said something like that, they didn't bring it up, then I don't know what to tell you, but I'm bringing up my experience and how it affects me.

Vetted In Vet Med (14:58)
Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (15:02)
So, you know, that whole situation, like I said, asked for some time off, didn't acknowledge my, you stress at that moment. And I said, okay, well, let's go ahead and put in those two weeks in. And then it was, what what's happening? Like, are you okay? What's going on? I'm out, girl. I'm out.

Vetted In Vet Med (15:09)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (15:30)
Can we try not to act like this is not a real thing and what you just did to me? Because in no way, shape, form did I ever make y'all feel like when we had this discussion in this room with you, me, and whoever the person was at that time that deals with all the discrimination and all that kind of stuff. forgot the title. in no way, shape, or form did I make y'all feel like this was okay. And...

Vetted In Vet Med (15:55)
Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (15:58)
Very similar situation happened when I got to Jackson. It's a different corporation. I mean, it started off as a private practice, but they had just been bought out by a corporation. And this lead doctor at the time, she made a comment about one of the Hispanic workers and said something about, she,

Vetted In Vet Med (16:06)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (16:25)
He was doing something, but she was gonna call ICE. Yeah, and I'm like, where am I? Like, what is this Twilight Zone? And I mean, needless to say, we ended up buttin' heads at some point. That's why I only made that sector of my life two months. I can't. I can't. Moving on to back to the old corporation.

Vetted In Vet Med (16:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

in.

Vetted in Vet Med (16:52)
I experienced a similar situation in which...

One of the nurses

said something in regards to one of the customer service employees and made a reference to him being Middle Eastern and not being able to understand what they're saying and all that kind of stuff. And now granted, this is gonna be all in the midst of my line manager not acknowledging that she is

Vetted In Vet Med (17:04)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (17:27)
removing my need to be responsible for the doctors in the hospital, but yet in the same breath blaming me for the things that they're doing in the hospital. And then, hmm.

Vetted In Vet Med (17:42)
Ain't that her job?

Wouldn't they have been her job?

or because she was another doctor.

Vetted in Vet Med (17:49)
Thank

Well, my line manager was blaming me for the things that were going on inside of these hospitals that I was managing. Uh-huh. But she also took my autonomy away. Every time I tried to hold somebody accountable, it was like, no, no, it's okay. Just maybe put them on a PIP or have a conversation.

Vetted In Vet Med (17:57)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

okay.

Vetted in Vet Med (18:22)
especially, you know, and I'm talking about these are not situations in which the conversation, you know, is needing to be had for a third time. Clients are upset, patients are dying. There was even an instance where one of the doctors put a live puppy who it was supposed to be one of, you know, those aborted spays that

Vetted In Vet Med (18:35)
Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (18:52)
She kind of managed to make it seem like I made her do when she, I was not even there when she had the conversation with the owner and she acknowledged she was going to do it. She tried to put it off on a new doctor that I was training and somehow the sac open. And from my understanding from a very reliable resource, he said that the puppy was alive when she put it into the freezer.

Vetted In Vet Med (19:14)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (19:21)
And so, right. And so the puppy came back out the freezer and they were, resuscitated. And I'm saying all this because this is not, this was not a situation in which it was normal for me to be in. It's not a situation in which I should not be having conversations about disciplinary action, like in your records, all these things. None of this was allowed to happen.

Vetted In Vet Med (19:48)
Mmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (19:49)
And at one point, are we talking about quality of care versus your fear of letting these doctors go or having them get so upset that they quit? You don't want somebody who is actively killing pets. I don't know how else to say it. Because there were a lot more instances because, I mean,

Vetted In Vet Med (20:02)
No

Right.

Vetted in Vet Med (20:17)
for nothing there was a Caucasian doctor. She may or may not still be there who is very judgmental about the area she's in and she always assumes that people don't have money and there's a particular situation in which a pet died because of it. I saw it later and it had a whole screw in his abdomen.

Vetted In Vet Med (20:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Vetted in Vet Med (20:45)
because she didn't have the conversation, because she didn't feel like they had money

Vetted In Vet Med (20:49)
my goodness, was just watching, I just watched a clip from a different podcast actually called Critters in Culture and it was literally just a clip about the bias that we sometimes have and

Vetted in Vet Med (20:51)
Yeah.

Mm.

Mmm.

Vetted In Vet Med (21:11)
You cannot, you cannot, I'm basically just reiterating what that other speaker was saying that you cannot, judge people basically by, the cover of the book. Because you have no idea and that's why you have to, yeah, I'm like you have to present the same.

Vetted in Vet Med (21:25)
Yeah.

Not a clue.

Vetted In Vet Med (21:36)
care, the same package that you would present to anybody because at the end of the day it's about the patients, about the patients. Exactly you don't know what they got.

Vetted in Vet Med (21:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and it's about allowing somebody to make the decision that you see fit for their baby. That's it.

At all. At all. Like, I mean, you can even say that we still have a certain type of bias. I mean, it's kind of like human nature because honestly, when...

Vetted In Vet Med (22:07)
No.

Vetted in Vet Med (22:11)
You might not even be thinking about it somebody walks up and you give them this Thousand dollar treatment plan. They're like go ahead. I'm they said yes They said yes Yeah, and the bias can be created by somebody or Having a day in which everybody's saying no because we have those days everybody fine. Nah, nah, we'll wait We'll monitor at home. We'll do this we'll do And then you come back the next day and you like, Okay

Vetted In Vet Med (22:17)
Okay. okay. This, okay.

Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (22:40)
And it's not necessarily a bias to what somebody looks like. It's just a general bias now because it's like nobody wants to spend any money because nobody has any money. That's not true. Not true at all. So, you know, I just felt like, I managed to move up to these positions in this particular position where I was excited about being able to contribute.

Vetted In Vet Med (22:44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Vetted in Vet Med (23:05)
my knowledge to what I felt was a needed area. And I couldn't even do my job because you were fearful of losing doctors when in fact you're losing pets and clients who keep the hospital afloat. And you know, I ended up in a situation where she

Vetted In Vet Med (23:13)
Mm.

Mm-hmm. that's... Yeah. Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (23:31)
start talking about me, well, she would start making little comments. And of course, they get back. They get back. You're my boss. You're my line manager. You're somebody who also told me I was in your backfield. Meaning for those who don't know, like, I was supposed to be her successor at some point. She was looking at me to do this. If I'm supposed to be your successor,

Vetted In Vet Med (23:37)
It's always gonna get

you

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (23:58)
And these are the conversations and the things you're saying about me behind my back. How do you feel about people that you don't like?

Vetted In Vet Med (24:02)
Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

Vetted in Vet Med (24:07)
That's concerning. So

again, I'm back at the inner workings of the company. It's coming down from somewhere because I'm getting the same, cause it wasn't always like that. And I hate that because

Vetted In Vet Med (24:18)
Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (24:27)
We're talking about, you know, us being African-American females in this role. Another conversation for another time, but.

Vetted In Vet Med (24:32)
Uh-huh.

Vetted in Vet Med (24:39)
The grief that I felt getting these comments and this negative behavior from women that looked like me was a stab I was so hurt. I'm just like, you're supposed to have my back more than anything. I can't speak for everybody else.

Vetted In Vet Med (24:48)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Vetted in Vet Med (25:09)
But as the 92%, like at that time, I felt like we were on the same wavelength. I felt like we had a commonality and not just because we're a black female, but especially after, you know, my education and what I've showed you and all those things, you know, my work that I've put in after that.

You supposed to have it back. Like if you're going to have a conversation, have it with me first. Cause this is first I'm hearing of it. You feel this way? Yeah. So yeah. I mean, so I just had, you know, the start of PTSD in that moment because after the young lady said the derogatory comment, it turned into a whole situation in which, well, she admitted

Vetted In Vet Med (25:39)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it's betrayal Yeah, I'm sure it's betrayal

Vetted in Vet Med (26:07)
Now, this my line, her line manager, because it was a nurse at the time, her line manager saying these things to me, because after I got in they behind about approaching it, because they were going to let it go. Yet again, why are we dusting this under the rug? We just had a doctor who left probably less than six months ago at this point, who is Middle Eastern.

Vetted In Vet Med (26:34)
Mm.

Vetted in Vet Med (26:34)
So what

happens if he was there during that time? Let's put some things in perspective.

you're counting on me to have to drill this into y'all about the things that are in your handbook, the discrimination policies, the things that make people feel like they can't be in the space and do what they love. So she was just like, she apologized and it wouldn't happen again. people say things in the, again, people say things in the hospital that

Vetted In Vet Med (26:50)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (27:12)
And so at that point I'm like, and she didn't say the N word, so how does it directly offend me? So here I am bringing up another situation, but it's not even offensive to me directly in the sense where I am Middle Eastern, but it's offensive to me because you were talking about a group of people based off of who they are and they can't change it. And they shouldn't have to.

Vetted In Vet Med (27:19)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, and all that creates a hostile work environment.

Vetted in Vet Med (27:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, and I started using those buzzwords if y'all don't know the buzzwords. I started using those in an email Yeah, I started using those in an email because it was a hostile work environment because why would I want to work with her ever again? I Don't I don't want to work with her She also I mean and I mentioned, know, just because she's apologetic is this is this is okay

Vetted In Vet Med (27:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Vetted in Vet Med (28:10)
to move pass this and so it took a long time. I mean, she even had documentation, but needless to say, after I left, at this point it is what it is, but I went out on leave with no expectations to come back. She's now shift lead.

Vetted In Vet Med (28:29)
They don't care. mean, it's just about trying to fit a body in. And the other thing too is, it's one thing being told, because I mean, has she ever even witnessed any of this herself, the line manager or whoever is in the position to

Vetted in Vet Med (28:32)
volumes speaks volumes.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted In Vet Med (28:58)
you know, move anybody up in the hospital. Has she ever witnessed that?

Vetted in Vet Med (29:03)
witnessed what part?

Vetted In Vet Med (29:04)
Any of like the derogatory comments?

Vetted in Vet Med (29:08)
I couldn't say that she witnessed that in person, but this was not this person's first offense in this category.

Vetted In Vet Med (29:15)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think

it should definitely, like there has to be repercussions for, you know, certain things and different levels of things, especially if it is creating, again, a hostile work environment. I feel like certain things are allowed to let, slip by.

Vetted in Vet Med (29:41)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted In Vet Med (29:42)
Because I don't know if it would have been different if it was more, of sexual connotation. Like, sexual harassment or anything like that, but it all falls into the same category with it making someone feel uncomfortable. And I think it's hard for people to let people go.

Vetted in Vet Med (29:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Vetted In Vet Med (30:09)
because of the fact that it's hard to get people back in that role, I understand, but at the same time, just told one of my supervisors the other day, he was feeling bad about having to let an employee go, but I'm like, you gotta get rid of them bad apples.

Vetted in Vet Med (30:15)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted In Vet Med (30:37)
especially if it's just that one, because they're going to spoil, they're going to spoil the bunch. So if that person is now in a leadership role, still speaking like that, then that is creating a culture for the clinic and for the environment, because everybody else is going to feel like it's okay and that they can also

Vetted in Vet Med (30:41)
yeah. yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vetted In Vet Med (31:04)
talk that way or there's going to be other people that are uncomfortable that may not even have the courage to speak up or say anything.

Vetted in Vet Med (31:11)
Right,

because there is somebody of, you know, transgender orientation in that hospital.

Vetted In Vet Med (31:18)
Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (31:20)
and he is somebody who is not going to necessarily speak up for themselves. What happens when, you know, she harasses him?

Vetted In Vet Med (31:26)
Yeah. And that's how.

Mm-hmm.

Vetted in Vet Med (31:33)
What happens then? You know, I said all this to say, I said, you know, you you know, keep saying, know, I said all this to say, I just, I think that, with the cons of corporate medicine, it's not for everybody.

Vetted In Vet Med (31:42)
you

Yeah.

Vetted in Vet Med (31:57)
And I do think everything has an expiration date.

Vetted In Vet Med (32:01)
for

this will conclude.

lord, so this will conclude this episode and we'll be back with the next part.

Vetted in Vet Med (32:15)
Stay tuned.